By page 29 of the novel Mrs. Dalloway, there is an apparent theme that connects the characters the reader has met: an atrophied or degenerated inner self. Not unlike Gabriel in The Dead or the white man in Heart of Darkness, there seems to be something "hollow" about them. Clarissa herself feels "invisible, unseen; unknown... not even Clarissa any more; this being Mrs. Richard Dalloway" (11). What effect, if any, do you think Woolf's style of writing - constantly switching point of view - has on the reader in how the characters are perceived? Also, what do you make of the "motor car incident", and the fact that Clarissa, Septimus, and the rest of the pedestrians who saw it stopped immediately, to simply look on in awe? It seems, to me at least, that our characters' senses of self are atrophied, at least partially, because of their concern and involvement with the outside world. For example, Clarissa's love (obsession) with hats and gloves. What do you guys think of this? Similarly to my perspective or a polar opposite - (perhaps somewhere in the middle)?
Tuesday, March 12, 2013
Mrs. Dalloway (Post I)
On page 12, we learn of Mrs. Dalloway's hatred - a "brutal monster" - which stirs at just the thought of Miss Kilman. She makes Mrs. Dalloway feel "inferior", although in an odd, almost contradictory fashion considering that she tells of "how poor she was... how she lived in a slum". From what we know about Mrs. Dalloway, why do you think this aggravates her so much, and makes her hate a woman who, in another world, "she could have loved"?
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In response to Isaac’s first question, I think Mrs. Dalloway’s opinion of Miss Kilman is best stated on page 12 when she says, “it was not her one hated but the idea of her, which undoubtedly had gathered in to itself a great deal that was not Miss Kilman”. Clarissa does not hate Miss. Kilman as a person and can see them being friends, but she is unlike Mrs. Dalloway in many ways. Mrs. Kilman is very independent, does not try to please men, and holds superiority over Clarissa because she is married. Clarissa, however, is very dependent on her husband and has recently begun to notice the isolation as a result of her dependence. They have survived in such different ways, Miss Kilman’s much life being much more difficult than Clarissa’s, that a hatred has developed between them from being so dissimilar.
ReplyDeleteAs for comparing Clarissa Dalloway to Gabriel, I think that Clarissa does not want to be isolated from her friends and family, whereas Gabriel finds comfort in isolation. She goes back into her memories when those she loved, like Sally, and those who loved her, such as Peter and Richard, surrounded her. Clarissa finds happiness in these memories but I feel like Gabriel would not. What do you think about Clarissa and Gabriel? Is she more like another character from the books we have read this semester (maybe Kurtz?)?
Perhaps somewhere in the middle. Isaac, I agree with your assertion that many of the characters have qualities of hollowness or the degradation or atrophy of self. Like the harlequin in Heart of Darkness or the Hollow Men of Hollow Men, Clarissa thinks that she “would not say of Peter, would not say of herself, I am this, I am that” (9). Like both of these characters, Clarissa is unwilling or unable to judge herself or anyone else, or to name the faults or qualities which characterize them. Then, examples such as the ones Isaac raised about how “a lady is known by her shoes and her gloves” (11), like “principles” and “acquisitions” in H.o.D. rather than “inborn strength”. However, I beg to differ as to the source whence these hollow attributes arose. In my eyes, hollowness in the book does not come from concern or obsession with the outside world. Rather, it is introspectiveness, profound inward searching to a dangerous degree, which breeds this deterioration of self and characterizes the hollow people in this book.
ReplyDeleteFor one example, Septimus Warren Smith, a veteran of World War 1 and one of the many soldiers who returned from the horrors of the Great War maimed not physically, but mentally. When the reader is introduced to him through his thoughts and the words of the narrator, we sense a profound feeling of uncertainty, insecurity, self-consciousness in his character. He is terrified that the convergence of the people on the motorcar will cause the world to burst into flames. He wonders whether he, in fact, is holding up the traffic. These characteristics echo those displayed by Gabriel in The Dead and the Hollow Men. Septimus’ Post-war disorder causes him to lack interest in “things outside himself” (21). Lucrezia is forced to point things out for him in an attempt to divert him from remaining within himself. IN fact, it may be his very lack of interest in/involvement with the outside world which makes him a hollow man.
Clarissa also displays introspective tendencies throughout the book, most prominently in her near constant flashbacks to Bourton summers. She does display some concern for outward appearance, like her face and body or her hat when she meets Hugh Whitbread. However, all of these reactions come as a result of her self-consciousness. So while I agree with Isaac’s premise, that many characters are hollow or show attributes of self-atrophy, I disagree with his rationale for this assertion.
I think a significant amount of the strain in Clarissa's relationship with Mrs. Kilman actually stems from a deep rooted jealousy over the relationship Mrs. Kilman has with Elizabeth, Clarissa's daughter. Clarissa herself admits to a distance between her and her daughter on page 13 when she gazes into the shop window, "Gloves and shoes; she (Clarissa) had a passion for gloves; but her own daughter, her Elizabeth, cared not a straw for either of them." This seemingly trivial detail about a young girls distaste for gloves and shoes illuminates the differences between mother and daughter. Clarissa goes on to explain that Mrs. Kilman and Elizabeth are "inseparable" and spend much of their time together attending Communion. Clarissa's relationship with Elizabeth is also noticed by Peter Walsh, during his brief midday visit. Although his interaction with Elizabeth is no more than a passing greeting, Peter is able to surmise the general feeling of the relationship that exists between her and her mother. "The way she said 'Here is my Elizabeth!'-that annoyed him. Why not 'Here's Elizabeth' simply? It was insincere. And Elizabeth didn't like it either." Not even around the pair for more than a minute, Peter is able to pick up on the disfunction that hovers beneath the surface. I believe that Clarissa is envious of the close relationship that Mrs. Kilman has with Elizabeth that Clarissa, even as Elizabeth's mother, is not able to achieve.
ReplyDeletethe second quote is on page 49! (oops)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mesa that Clarissa is jealous of the bond between Elizabeth and Mrs. Kilman. The inferior feeling is from the loss of her daughter's love and the doting attention she gives to her teacher. Clarissa feels threatened by Mrs. Kilman, even though Mrs. Kilman is of the lower class because Mrs. Kilman is independent. Clarissa is dependent on her husband and is isolated from many things because of that dependency. In truth mother and daughter seem to be polar opposites. Clarissa loving material objects while Elizabeth cares for the simple things such as reading and the church.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily concerning Mrs. Dalloway's "hatred" for Miss Kilman. The "idea of her" is so much different then the world Mrs. Dalloway lives in that Mrs. Dalloway finds it hard to like her. The fact that she is a poor woman, not dependent on a man and has a close relationship with her daughter all are reasons that contribute to Mrs. Dalloway's hate. Also the fact that Miss Kilman has a sense of self respect and is comfortable with her life, might annoy Mrs. Dalloway. "...and how she dressed, how she treated other people who came to lunch she did not care a bit, it being her experience that the religious ecstasy made people callous.." (11- 12). Even though Clarissa seems to be more well off socially than Miss Kilman, internally she is struggling with content in her identity. She does not like the feeling of hatred, an example of her discontent with her inner feelings. "It rasped her, though, to have stirring in her this brutal monster!...the soul; never to be content quite, or quite secure, for at any moment the brute would be stirring, this hatred" (12).
ReplyDeleteWolfe's writing style is especially significant to this story of identity. The alternating points of view provide the reader with each character's conscious thoughts. This helps us develop understandings of the characters and analyze their inner thoughts. Also this style of "stream of consciousness" helps us draw parallels between the characters of Mrs. Dalloway, Septimus and Peter that we would not be able to see from an outside narrative.
I must concur with Emily, Mesa, Colleen and Ellen, that much of Clarissa's internal conflict with Miss Kilman originates from their independent relationships with Clarissa's daughter, Elizabeth. Clarissa feels some sense of possession of her daughter, having raised her, and it is evident through her language: calling Elizabeth "her own daughter"(11) and "my Elizabeth"(48). And while Miss Kilman may or may not be extracting Elizabeth from Clarissa's control, there is more to Clarissa's detestation of Miss Kilman. To tie this in with the concept of "hollowness" showing up in this book, I believe that Clarissa would describe Miss Kilman as "hollow" or "atrophied". On page 12 Clarissa states that "religious ecstasy made people callous (so did causes)". She sees Miss Kilman as a martyr for her religious beliefs. What Clarissa detests about her is her complete devotion and lack of control over her life "Miss Kilman would do anything for the Russians, starved herself for the Austrians"(12). Then, Miss Kilman uses her piety to make "you feel her superiority, your inferiority"(12). It is not that it is her daughter in particular being involved with Miss Kilman that bothers her; for Clarissa to have any loved one enjoy the company of Miss Kilman would be aggravating, on account of what she sees in Miss Kilman. If Clarissa believes that Miss Kilman is "hollow", then it would make sense for her to strive for the opposite, and feel badly when she perceives to be "hollow" herself. This is shown on page 62, when Peter Walsh calls her a simple "hostess". Since she strives to have more in her life than simply throwing parties, she "winced all over"(62).
ReplyDelete